At ARBuildJunkie, we’re patiently saving up funds for the eventual launch of a 12″ 8.6 Blackout AR. Billed as “300 Blackout’s Big Brother,” just prior to SHOT Show 2020, we reached out to Q’s Kevin Brittingham for a brief update on the status of the cartridge.
Q: Kevin, with SHOT 2020 on the immediate horizion, can you give us a brief update on where 8.6 Creedmoor or 8.6 Blackout is?
Kevin Brittingham – At SHOT, weāre having some meetings with different ammo manufacturers and firearms manufacturers and government and military, and weāll be doing some private demos with it. Weāre still working on it with Hornady, Discreet Ballistics and some others.
Weāre still trying to settle barrel twist for 8.6 Blackout and some of that depends on the bullet size that we end up with or we think is right for production and what we think the general use will be.
Some of the problem with the twist is there are not very many companies that can do faster than 1:7ā¦thereās not many barrel makers that can do faster if they pull buttons, so that complicates it a little bit, and we need to make sure we have all that lined up as well.
As far as barrel twist, like I said, it depends. If we think most of the ammo is going to be supersonic, the optimum twist isnāt quite as fast as if we think itās going to be mostly subsonic.
If we go really fast, which would be like a 1:3 twist, which is great for accuracy for subsonic, then a lot of the .338 projectiles that are out there now, if you push them fast, they are going to come apart out of the muzzle. So, weāre still evaluatingā¦We are actually testing some new subsonic, expanding bullets today.
Q: What twist are you leaning towards as of today for 8.6 Blackout?
Kevin Brittingham – Right now, weāre kind of settling on 1:4, and it will be a 12 and half inch barrelā¦that will be where most of the production will be for our pistols which weāre developing our cartridge around. Weāre still looking at about a 150-grain through about a 330-grain bullet probably for super to subsonic.
One of the good 8.6 Blackout hunting rounds is loading a Barnes bullet thatās about a 200-grain solid copper expanding as a supersonic. Itās a great roundā¦and you know, the cartridge is a 300-meter cartridge overall, and that includes accuracy and expansion with subsonic.
Q: So, would that 200-grain bullet you mention be comparable to the Barnes 110-grain projectile thatās proven so popular in 300 Blackout?
Kevin Brittingham – Well, Itās a pre-existing bullet that weāre testing with the Barnes. Weāre working with Discreet Ballistics and some other companies on some others. We donāt really have a working relationship with Barnes, being that they are a Freedom Group companyā¦but with Hornady for instance, weāre working on that with them, and thereās probably going to be two avenues with this, which is a little different than 300 Blackout.

We still have case capacity with 8.6 Blackout, so itās not too difficult to get some good velocity, unlike 300 Blackout. A 150-grain, being a super light bullet, would probably be very comparable to the 110-grain for the 300 Blackout.
Then weād have a 200-grain where we could still get some very good velocity out of it, and still get very good penetration. For instance, Iāll be taking this to Australia in September, and Iāll shoot a buffalo with itā¦and Iāll probably be using the 200-grain.

So, I think itās a little different than 300 Blackout because I think you have a little more potential with this or a wider window of things you can do with it. Just like when you think of in terms of 300 Blackout and the AK round 7.62 x 39. When you compare those to something like the versatility of .308ā¦thatās sort of what we have with this cartridge. I think you are going to see more versatility with it.
Q: Can you talk at all about what platforms this cartridge will be run in?
Kevin Brittingham – Obviously, weāre doing it for the Fix. Itās also an easy cartridge for any AR-10 or SR-25 manufacturer. They can use pre-existing magazinesā¦just like 300 Blackout. All they have to do is swap out the barrel.
An exciting opportunity for us might be with POF, with their Revolution rifle, and us potentially working with them to do something like a Honey Badger. That would be a five or five-and-a-half-pound gun that would shoot this cartridge. It would basically be like an AR-15ā¦
Q: How important is the idea of light weight to this 8.6 Blackout project?
Kevin Brittingham – In terms of lightweightā¦There are guys who see the Fix rifle, and they determine that the gun is not for them. They shoot PRS and they may want a 20-pound gun because they want to shoot 1,000 yards and they want absolutely no recoil. Well, the Fix is not for them.
Some people are not going to like 8.6 Blackout with supersonic in a light gunā¦thatās because youāre going to know you shot something. But with the subsonic, youāre going to have a 300, 320, maybe a 350 or 360-grain bullet thatās 1,000 feet a second, thatās 124db. Itās as quiet as any 300 Blackout youāve heard.

Itās as quiet as some of the .22s that are out there, but youāre launching a 300+ grain bulletā¦and with that being a .338 vs. a .30 caliber, the expansion is easier. Weāre also going to get more penetration with it. Itās going to be a legitimate hunting cartridge, and in that regard, I want all of my guns to be compact and lightweight.
The Fix is a 6-pound gun in .308, and it does have recoilā¦so we made a butt pad for it called the BIG BUTT PAD. When I go shooting, if I am at the range all day, I use that big butt pad but I donāt when I hunt and Iāve never noticed the recoil. I think itās kind of the same thing with this gun. That said, thereās going to be legitimate big game rounds that we are trying to get the absolute maximum out of and there will be subsonic where it is designed to be incredibly low signature.
Q: From a personal standpoint, with the kind of hunting we do, a 12.5″ AR chambered in 8.6 Blackout sounds quite attractive.
Kevin Brittingham – For sure. Iāve got Daniel Defense 16ā .308, and itās a nice gun, but the thing weighs like 10 pounds. I find myself never using it.
I think itās like the trend with handguns. Someone comes out with a new service pistol, whether its CZ or Glock, itās like who cares? A full-sized, big gun? Itās cool, but it doesnāt take much for those guns to be reliable, to be accurate, or for them to have nice triggers.
The trend for a decade now has been the compact, pocket gun, essentiallyā¦and when I say that, I mean like the Sig 365. That is innovationā¦That is a great gun. They made a compact, lightweight gun that holds a bunch of rounds, the grip is not too big, that you can really conceal, and the gun shoots great.
Is it the gun that if I am going to the range, I am going to shoot a thousand rounds through? Is that what I want to shoot? No. But itās the gun I am generally going to use.
It shoots good enough, itās small enough, and it holds enough rounds. Itās the most practicalā¦itās a real “utility” gun. I donāt use a pistol a lot, but when I do, thatās the kind of gun that I want to carry.
Q: Iād like to go back to barrel length for a secondā¦.youāre thinking just 12.5ā or will there be other options?
Kevin Brittingham – Iām sure there will be a variety of options available, just like 300 Blackout. Weāll (Q LLC) probably stick to oneā¦with 12.5ā or 12 ¾ā or wherever we end up thereā¦and honestly that just depends on the length of our handguard now, but in that length range is where we want to be, in order to get the range and velocity that we want.That said, 8.6 Blackout will be practical for a shorter barrel. It will also be practical for a longer barrel.

You see companies with 300 Blackout have all kinds of opinions. I know I just started YouTube on my television a few months agoā¦and I watch a lot of 300 Blackout stuff. What Iām amazed with is the amount of ignorance that is out there from people who do videosā¦but whatās also interesting to see is the variety of uses, and what people think, and what works for them.
You know a big part of the short barrel is going to be with the subsonic cartridges and the fast twist, and a lot of people donāt understand it, and theyāre not āgetting on that train,ā and so then itās not as useful with the short barrel, because theyāre not getting accuracy with subsonics.
Q: Can you explain the benefit of fast twist for someone who might be new to firearms?
Kevin Brittingham – If you have a big, long bullet going slow, you need to spin it faster, or you need to have a big, long barrel. You also get energy from spinning the bullet faster. With our supersonics, weāre getting good velocities, but when we spin it two or three times faster than a .308, or the standard .338, weāre greatly increasing the energy on target. You get linear velocity, and then you get rotational velocity, which also translates to more energy.
Itās going to be exciting. With 300 Blackout with solid copper, you can get great penetrationā¦but when we add another 100 grains of weight to the bullet, the penetration is just phenomenal. Weāre already doing gelatin testsā¦it doesnāt make a lot of sense for maybe some people here, because everybody here is all ātactical,ā and you think about the FBI protocol and 18ā of penetration and not wanting to go over thatā¦well, I hunt big game, and I donāt necessarily feel like carrying a 20-pound rifle around. So, there are times where I want 30ā of penetration. So, doing a solid copper that just slightly expands is great for some uses…
The Eventual Impact of 8.6 Blackout
I think one thing 8.6 Blackout is going to do is it is going to cement bolt action pistolsā¦short barrels for hunting, and give shooters a wide variety of subsonic and supersonic options for hunting everything from whitetail, to feral pigs, to buffalo in Australiaā¦and you can do it with a compact gun that fits in a backpack, and is not too burdensome to carry.

Q: Is there a rough time frame for the release of 8.6 Blackout, or is this one of those things where itās “out when itās ready?”
Kevin Brittingham – Itās ready when itās ready. I think thereās some things youāll see soon, like the 8.6 Blackout chamber drawings offered, and youāll see us offer the Fix, and then youāll see some gas guns offered from us and different companies, and very soon you will see components offered to that people can start loading ammo. As far as commercial ammo from larger manufacturers, it could creep into next year, but weāre going to get it going even if it is just with components. Weāre getting some loaded ammo obviously, and weāre also loading it, as weāre doing a lot of testing ourselves.
Q: Anything else youād like to add about 8.6 Blackout?
Kevin Brittingham – The final thing would be if you have a Remington, this will just be a barrel changeā¦if you have a .308 short action gun or a clone of a Remingtonā¦same thing with the SR. Thatās it. Youāll need a new silencer, and weāll have new silencer that is launching at the end of this quarter. Itās a stainless-steel silencer called the Pork Chop, and itās for the 8.6 Blackout and .338 cartridge.
Itās the size of our Thunder Chickenā¦and it uses a Cherry Bomb muzzle device that is just larger. Because people are going to need to get paperwork going, we want to have these available in the next few months.
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I get you want to harvest more energy on target with as heavy a bullet as possible with as high a BC as possible while keeping velocity as low as possible… so spin gives you a way to invest more energy at a lower speed… but it’s such a restrictive choice, trading versatility (less long range accuracy with lower weight bullets, greater risk of “blowing up” thin skinned bullets, increased friction increases barrel wear while losing linear supersonic velocity for rotational velocity and barrel heat) And let’s not forget that hardly any button rifle barrel maker can do anything less… Read more »
Test the caliber againts the 375 RAPTOR
I’m guess better long range efficiency and less recoil. But I’m curious how it’s going to differ at terminal effect with subs… less weight, but more twist means with popular expanding copper subs you might get wider petals, more contact surface area due to more turns (more cutting surface area), and with supers you might get more expansion with copper expanders, more initial explosion (shock), due to insane RPMS, but you might get more bullets fragment. With fragmenting designs, the spin might make the shape of the fragment path more obtuse and less acute, which means with broad shots more… Read more »
Maybe reload the 338 Close Quarters from Lehigh into the caliber and test the results when is ready…
Was the interview in 2019 or 2020? It just says prior to SHOT Show. Kevin mentioned that commercially produced ammo may not come out until “next year.” Does that mean we wont see ammo out for 8.6 until 2021? Thanks!
I conducted the interview with Kevin in very early January 2020.
One short question: Any idea who can make barrels with a twist even as high as 1/5 or 1/6? not to mention 1/4?
clarification: If we have to wait another year for full product rollout we’ll need barrels before there are affordable rifles.
I tried ordering a 338 blank with a 1/6 twist only without the chamber finished (waiting for the reamers to come out), and couldn’t find anyone who would say yes to even 1/6… not to mention 1/4.
Seems that rock creek means that .338 cal.,1/5, 5R barrels are in the realm of the feasible for them.
This cartridge will also make gain twist a thing again…
That’s a really interesting point. It would mean a little less instant torque… the twist would be imparted over time so it might be less violent, and you might get more velocity that way. I’ve seen tests where 300 blk does better in low twist barrels with light supers as it pertains to muzzle velocity… it’s basic physics. The powder produces a net force and some is spent of twist, some is spent on linear velocity, and some is wasted on the obduration required to engrave the bullet and transfer that force from straight to rotational. A gain twist might… Read more »
This is more akin to a 6×45 but even then not quite. not sure why you are calling it a blackout if the 375 raptor is a much more accurate comparison. anyway i am really confused on this big push to go subsonic with the large frame setup. subsonic limits the projectile speed and there are plenty of ar15/lr15 big bore calibers that you can shoot subsonic so a dedicated large frame subsonic big bore is really weird, lot of money for something easily had for cheaper, and lighter, if it has to be dedicated which it does due to… Read more »